This is where things have to get practical. We have to have SOME federal government, just a small and restricted one. Saying that any government, even a limited one, is socialism, is calling it a little tight. We have government and our representative republic is set up in such a way as we all pay for it to the benefit of us all. However, our form of government is not socialism because it does not seek to look at the benefits of a free society in a collective manner. Providing the welfare of the collective through the labor of the individual is what socialism is all about. We are a capitalist society where the fruit of individual labor is supposed to go to the welfare of the individual with minimal interference from government.

I just think you paint socialism with a slightly broad brush. That's all.


THAT is socialism. But it wasn't basic public services that did it. It was all the other social guarantees that did it.

That was how public police and fire departments started.

Before that, in England, the wealthy had their own bodyguards, and many had their own private police force. (The king drew very clear lines about what types of weapons/armor they could have, based on title/rank.)

Before that, wealthy people subscribed to fire departments rather than rely on friends and neighbors to form bucket brigades. (The insignia, which people posted to show which fire deparment they subscribed to, are now collectors items.)



"Basic public services" was the first step on a very slippery slope. Next came public education. Next came public health officers. Next came anti-slavery laws. Next . . .
. . . and that's how we came to be where we are today.

Sounds like Mexico. Do you think the rise of our middle class has anything to do with the rise of our public services or is
it that our middle class rose as a result of our public services. In Mexico, if you roam out of the resort areas, there are few public services but also few middle class.

Hey didn't I mention the effect of giving women the right to vote? I guess it got deleted. What in the world for? I thought this was the chat section.